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[00:00:03.94] REID HOLZWORTH: Welcome to The Insurance Technology Podcast. I'm your host, Reid Holzworth. Joining me today is Jack Ramsey. Jack is the vice president of agent channel at NEXT Insurance. Jack, welcome, man.
[00:00:16.26] JACK RAMSEY: Thanks. It's great to see you. And thanks for having me on.
[00:00:19.34] REID HOLZWORTH: Likewise. Likewise. So we're going to get into a lot to what you're doing at NEXT, as we always do. But first, let's get to know you. The audience loves to get to know the person. So, Jack, where are you from?
[00:00:33.04] JACK RAMSEY: So yeah. Hey, thanks for the conversation around that. Don't usually go back in time and start that way. But yeah, so I grew up in a small town in Western North Carolina. Town's called Bryson City. In fact, it's the same area that is all over the news right now. So if you--
[00:00:50.21] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, really? Oh, no kidding. Yeah.
[00:00:51.70] JACK RAMSEY: Due to Hurricane Helene and all the horrible Western North Carolina tragedy that's taking place. That's where I grew up.
[00:00:58.33] REID HOLZWORTH: Wow.
[00:00:59.14] JACK RAMSEY: And so one plug there is if anybody has means or an opportunity to help out or assist with the disaster recovery, please do. There's a huge need there. And it's going to take a while for that area to recover.
[00:01:14.59] That being said, what a beautiful place. It's a place that I grew up as a kid, and I can honestly say I didn't really appreciate it as a kid the way it really was. And yeah, so that's where I grew up. Super small town, a very heavy-- I'll call it a town that caters to tourism. And so, again, back to the tragedy that's taking place now, the tourism industry is going to take a while to recover and help rebuild that place.
[00:01:44.38] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, it sucks, man. That sucks. So what was family life like?
[00:01:50.32] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, so I was a big family. I was one of five kids in a family of seven-- one brother, three sisters. Wonderful family. Just living life in rural Western North Carolina. Parents worked hard to prioritize, I think, the right things and raising us and bringing us up.
[00:02:11.08] At times, that was hard. It was tough. Again, being in a rural place that's so heavily built off of tourism, you have seasonality that comes into there. But all that to be said, happy childhood, wonderful family. Loved having a chance to grow up that way.
[00:02:29.23] REID HOLZWORTH: That's awesome. So what about sports, hobbies? What were you into as a child?
[00:02:35.01] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, so I love sports. With my buddies, I was playing football all the time. But from an organized basis, I played baseball. So I played baseball in high school. Thoroughly enjoyed that. Probably my best-- if I could choose any activity as a kid, I would get home from school. I would strap the fishing pole onto my bike. And I would ride out to meet my buddies out at creeks, and we would fish until dark.
[00:03:01.31] And so where we lived, that's something that's pretty unique and cool to get to do. And yeah, it's one of those-- you watch an Andy Griffith show or one of those old shows. And you see kids do that. That was me growing up.
[00:03:14.45] REID HOLZWORTH: So what are they like? Like, spring kind of streams, like trout and stuff like that, or more like bass and panfish and that kind of thing?
[00:03:23.98] JACK RAMSEY: No, a full-on trout. So these are mountain steam--
[00:03:26.91] REID HOLZWORTH: Fly fishing then?
[00:03:28.34] JACK RAMSEY: We'd fly fish or spinner, yep.
[00:03:30.30] REID HOLZWORTH: Yep. Oh, that's awesome, man. That's super cool. Like brown trout, rainbow trout, you get golden trout around there at all?
[00:03:38.36] JACK RAMSEY: So mostly rainbow. And you'd get this-- like I said, when they would open up a lot of the national park areas that were closed off for dozens of years, you get some pretty spectacular rainbow. Golden every now and then as you moved out toward the Asheville area, but primarily rainbow. I don't know that I can remember catching a bass until I was much older.
[00:04:00.85] REID HOLZWORTH: That's awesome, man. That's ultimate. That's so cool to be able-- as a kid, to be able to just hop on your bicycle and go and fish these awesome trout streams. Sounds like a real--
[00:04:11.06] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, and think about it. It was back in the day too, but no phones. Your parents didn't know necessarily where you were or when you were going to get back. And you did your best to pedal back before dark, and it made a day of it.
[00:04:24.56] REID HOLZWORTH: Something to be said about that, just being free in that way as a child. It's kind of different now. It's like everybody's tethered to this thing. And everybody knows what everybody's doing. I mean, they're on Snapchat, literally watching each other on where they're going and what they're doing.
[00:04:41.25] And yeah, when I was a kid, it was the same thing. I mean, we just like-- I mean, I was raised by wolves. I just did whatever whenever. But most kids had to be home when it's dark or whatever. But it's cool. I mean, it's something to be said to just be able to roam free like that, knowing that, oh, yeah, hey, I got to get back. And sometimes you get back later than you wanted, and maybe your parents get mad or whatever.
[00:05:03.52] But it's so different than that now. And now everybody's afraid of all these bad things that are happening to them and just-- I don't know. And just the connection to the devices as well, it's different. And not to mention, a lot of kids don't even go outside. [LAUGHS] I mean, they do. But you know what I'm saying. It's different.
[00:05:23.96] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, times are different. Times are very different.
[00:05:25.92] REID HOLZWORTH: Times are very, very different. Great way to put it. When you were a child, what was something difficult you went through? Like, what was something you had to overcome? We get a little deep here on--
[00:05:36.97] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah. No, this is actually a easy one for me, but still a little bit painful. I was painfully shy as a child. I had a hard time making eye contact, bringing up my voice, making myself a center of attention. I love to be involved. I love to be around things that were happening. I just didn't want it to be about me.
[00:05:59.35] And so that was hard. I mean, quite honestly, to go from being that shy of a kid to being OK with not only just participating, but getting excited about having an opportunity to tell a story or having an opportunity to be something bigger or different. And it took a while to get to that point, quite honestly. It was not until later in high school and then certainly in college where I was able to break through that.
[00:06:30.96] But yeah, that was a tough one. And I recognize that, and I see that in some kids today. And that's a great mentorship opportunity, I think, to come alongside somebody that I see experiencing some of that same-- some of that same trouble.
[00:06:46.40] REID HOLZWORTH: Why do you think that was, Jack? Because you grew up in a big family, lots of siblings, stuff like that, just-- if you were to-- what makes somebody shy, I guess, is the question.
[00:06:56.03] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, I don't know that I can answer that.
[00:06:58.24] REID HOLZWORTH: I don't know either.
[00:07:00.97] JACK RAMSEY: Like I said, it's one thing to be shy and be a recluse. You just hanged yourself. But still, love to be around people and love to be around activities and honestly even be the best one at the activity, but just didn't want to have to then say something or be brought up in front.
[00:07:23.26] I don't have an answer to it. I know I experienced it. And it wasn't something that I liked, but I knew that it would be great to break through if possible and fortunately was able to.
[00:07:34.98] REID HOLZWORTH: That's awesome, man. All right, let's move up to yours. Let's talk about high school. What was high school like? What was your favorite band? What was your first car? And then let's get into first job. What was your first job?
[00:07:49.94] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, so in high school, like I mentioned, just growing up and getting a little bit more comfortable in life in general. I grew up in the '70s and '80s. So from a band perspective, that's like when music was music.
[00:08:07.42] So all the favorites. So you can go down the list from Eagles to Queen to Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin, a lot of favorites. But also you marry that with being in Western North Carolina and hopping on the bus to go to an out-of-town baseball games. And there was always going to be some Hank Williams Jr. Playing as well as you're on the way.
[00:08:32.94] But the funny thing I remember the most is Phil Collins and Genesis as a favorite. And I was going back, like, why does that stand out so much? It's Miami Vice.
[00:08:44.80] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, hell, yeah.
[00:08:46.18] JACK RAMSEY: And so he was the music for Miami Vice, and that stood out for all those years.
[00:08:51.21] REID HOLZWORTH: Dude, when I was a kid, my dad actually, during that time, that's all he would play, that Miami Vice soundtrack. There was a tape. And just listen to that song all the time. I love that shit, that Lionel Richie. [LAUGHS]
[00:09:07.39] JACK RAMSEY: That's the same thing.
[00:09:08.38] REID HOLZWORTH: My dad love that shit--
[00:09:09.79] JACK RAMSEY: It's funny how you tie that back to a show. Like, it's--
[00:09:12.61] REID HOLZWORTH: Right?
[00:09:13.00] JACK RAMSEY: That's where it came from.
[00:09:14.92] REID HOLZWORTH: That was such a good show. I don't care what anybody says. That was such an awesome time. There was so much cool shit during the '80s.
[00:09:22.60] JACK RAMSEY: It was. It was one of those favorite things to watch at the end of the day when it would come on. But yeah, in high school, I didn't have a car. I borrowed whatever car we had at the house. Loved them. Just didn't have one. Didn't have one until I was in college, actually, when I graduated. But while in school, I was in the band, played trumpet.
[00:09:44.56] REID HOLZWORTH: No kidding.
[00:09:45.22] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, played trumpet. I played baseball. So I played baseball for the high school team. And I was in a Boy Scouts and finished my Eagle Scout. So I--
[00:09:54.61] REID HOLZWORTH: That's awesome.
[00:09:55.63] JACK RAMSEY: You go back and look at this mountain boy growing up time and you stereotypically predict the stuff that I would have been involved with, and I was in most of them. But that was that. And back to the-- you opened up an interesting thing with shyness and getting out of something painful.
[00:10:16.52] I remember back even in Boy Scouts-- and this was part of that transition-- I had a radio show in high school where in our local town radio, I did a Boy Scout report every week, where I would go in and I would tell what's going on in the Boy Scouts that week. And so, again, that's one of those things that helped me get more comfortable in expressing and being a part of something that I can go back now. And because you prompted the question, I can start thinking about all these little things that played a role.
[00:10:45.98] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. I want to talk about the Boy Scouts real quick because you brought it up. Dude, I was a Boy Scout. I went like arrow. I wish I would have went all the way and done Eagle Scout. I do not care what people say. I know that the Boy Scouts got a lot of bad shit happen, a lot came out and whatever, but it's dying off. So I was a Boy Scout leader for them and whatnot.
[00:11:12.10] But a lot of these kids are just not doing it. They're not into it. And I'll tell you, when I was leading the troop here in Milwaukee, these kids for the very first time got to learn how to use a pocket knife. And you teach them how to start a fire, you teach them why it's important to clean up trash outdoors and things like that. And there's just life skills and things. And people are like, OK, Dory, who cares. But no, dude, I think the kids, it's really good.
[00:11:42.93] For me as a child, I grew up in Laguna Beach, California, in Southern California. And it's awesome. That's a really awesome place. But it's kind of Metropolis and there's not a lot of real wilderness there, locally right there. And so for us growing up, it was an outlet to go actually truly experience the outdoors. And to your point, some of the most biggest growing experiences in my life-- and I think back on just leadership opportunities that they gave me when I was a kid to lead the pack and do this, you're going to do that and all this stuff. I think it's really good.
[00:12:21.83] And I think it sucks that it's gotten a bad rep. I think it sucks that it's not cool. And I'll tell you, I quit out of it because, I mean, in high school, I was like, yeah, no, nobody's really doing this and it's kind of lame, you know what I mean? But looking back on it, dude, I mean, I think it's cool. And so, I don't know, I just kind of wanted to go off on a little bit of a tangent around that stuff. But I think those types of programs are really important for kids overall in their growth because they get exposed to things that you don't normally get exposed to.
[00:12:58.90] JACK RAMSEY: There's a lot to it. I mean, there's certainly the outdoor piece, you got to set goals and manage time to get the levels done to get toward eagle. You do have leadership roles. There's a lot to it that is missing today for sure. And I mean, even things like high adventures, you go on a high adventure camp weekend where you're on your own for days in the wilderness. You got to make do. I mean, that's everything from cooking to, like you said, cleaning up trash or keeping up after yourself. Those are life skills that really make a difference. So I'm with you on that.
[00:13:36.03] REID HOLZWORTH: They are, yeah. So anyways, I'm going to go off a tangent because a lot of people on that stuff. I think it's great overall. All right, so what was your first job?
[00:13:44.27] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah so you'll like this. I have an official first job, and then I have a first job. My first job was 12 years old, I'm selling greeting cards door to door.
[00:13:55.73] REID HOLZWORTH: [LAUGHS]
[00:13:57.47] JACK RAMSEY: I learned through a Boy Scout magazine in the back advertisements that you can sell greeting cards for this company, you make $1 per pack of what you sell. And you do orders. And so me and my brother, who was two years younger than me, we would Canvas the neighborhood door to door, and we would sell greeting cards and take orders. We'd have them shipped and they'd come in. We deliver them. And that's how we made our money is selling greeting cards as a young kid.
[00:14:23.94] So I knew from the beginning, sales was my thing. And then real job, worked at a Hardee's. If you've ever been to a Hardee's, $3.35 an hour. Working as many hours as I could get at the age of 16. Just talking about that, actually, with my kids just last week where I can't believe I was working for $3 an hour. Yeah, and I was making what I thought was real money at the time.
[00:14:55.13] REID HOLZWORTH: That's awesome, man. So then what? What did you do after high school? College, military-- what happened there?
[00:15:01.64] JACK RAMSEY: So I went to college. I went to UNC at Chapel Hill. So I was a Tar Heel. Again, very small school I went to. I was the only kid that went to Chapel Hill for college. We had a dozen or so that went to other schools. But yeah, went to Chapel Hill, knew no one, built friends, created that college life. Absolutely loved it. I tell people, I was on the 4 and 1/2 year plan. Four years wasn't quite enough and five years would have been too much. So 4 and 1/2 was perfect.
[00:15:37.25] REID HOLZWORTH: That's awesome. [LAUGHS] What'd you go to school for?
[00:15:41.48] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, so I got a degree in industrial relations, which that's sociology in the workplace and economics. So I had an economics degree and sociology and a workplace degree. Fully believed, when I went to school, I was going to be a banker. That was my life plan.
[00:15:59.58] Yeah, so as a kid, a young kid, I actually wanted to own a resort. I had a plan in my mind going through high school, I was going to own a beach resort and fully had it raked out the whole thing. At the end of the day, it was so that we could go there any time we wanted. That was the purpose in my head. But I wanted to own a beach resort. And then getting into college, decided banking was my future. Ultimately, it was not my future, but it was my thought.
[00:16:33.68] REID HOLZWORTH: So then what happened? What was your first real job coming out of college?
[00:16:38.15] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, so my first real job was I actually sold at Prudential. I was a sales rep at Prudential. And quickly going back to the banker thing, I always try to be careful in what I share with my kids, especially those that are in college now. Fully plan, I'd be a banker. Had banking interviews lined up on the campus of UNC, Chapel Hill. Overslept for my interviews. And so didn't show up for my 9 o'clock interview with a big national branded bank, which I won't name. And by calls, I didn't show up. I was then blackballed from interviews on campus from that point forward.
[00:17:18.09] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, no way. Oh, man.
[00:17:20.89] JACK RAMSEY: Couldn't even show up. So from there, this goes back in time, my dad found an ad in the newspaper for Prudential. They were hiring sales reps. And I was fortunate enough to be chosen and hired by Prudential to be a life insurance annuities and mutual fund sales rep right out of college.
[00:17:40.66] REID HOLZWORTH: That's awesome. So who did you sell to when you had that job? Because a lot of those-- as we all know, those life insurance sales jobs, it's spray and pray. And a lot of it's like getting leads from your parents and your family and whatnot. And then they hope that you'll start to cultivate more and keep going. So how did that go for you?
[00:18:04.17] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah. This is a plug for Prudential as a life insurance company. The best training I've probably ever been to in my whole career. And so they have a lot of ways. They have existing customers not assigned to somebody you can call who have life insurance already in place. And you can meet with them and reevaluate.
[00:18:25.22] What I did is I actually-- this goes back into the '80s, early '90s. I chose to start with renters insurance. I was a 22-year-old kid right out of college. It was kind of like the circle of people that were my age. So I'd put door flyers in apartment complexes on every door.
[00:18:43.79] I was recently married. That was one of our evening activities together. My wife and I would go Canvas an apartment complex, drop off 300 flyers on the doors, and make that a date. And then the mail would show up at work the next couple of days with people interested in renters insurance. And I would start with them. And I would style them renters insurance and then pivot into life insurance and investments.
[00:19:06.86] REID HOLZWORTH: That's awesome. That's awesome. How long did you do that for?
[00:19:10.30] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, so I was there for a total of five years. I sold for almost three. And then I was a sales manager for the next two before transitioning into the PNC world.
[00:19:22.10] REID HOLZWORTH: Gotcha. So then what happened? What happened from there?
[00:19:26.69] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, so became a nationwide agent. So it's still in my home state of North Carolina. I was a nationwide agent.
[00:19:33.63] REID HOLZWORTH: What does that actually mean? And I probably should know this, but what does that actually mean at that time? You get an agency, are you are under an agency? What does that mean exactly?
[00:19:42.75] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, no, you're the agency. So you have a storefront. So I had a storefront in Greensboro, North Carolina. It was my storefront. I was--
[00:19:52.13] REID HOLZWORTH: You're on the hook for that. You go get the storefront, the whole nine. They just appoint you to their products and let you use their systems essentially. OK, yeah.
[00:20:00.71] JACK RAMSEY: Absolutely. Yeah, so loved it. Did well there and had my agency. And again, this was the longest I'd been at one company, which was 13 years.
[00:20:11.45] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, wow. So you were-- so you were an agent for 13 years.
[00:20:15.92] JACK RAMSEY: No, I was an agent for the first five. And then-- so kind of an interesting transition. A friend of mine in the town next door, not a whole lot older than I was, got sick with cancer. He had multiple office locations. And so I helped him cover while he was out sick. He ultimately passed away.
[00:20:38.91] But when I was helping his staff do that, it made me think about managing. It made me think about helping other agencies be successful because that's what I was doing. And so at the time, my boss, my manager came in and said, hey, we've got a spot that's opening up to learn to be a sales manager. Would you be willing to think about that? And so I did. I gave up the agency, fully expected that at some point in the future, if I wanted to be an agent again, I could do it again, and I'd be better at it having been a manager. And so I started the round as a sales manager, working my way up through nationwide, and never looked back.
[00:21:17.82] REID HOLZWORTH: Wow. That's awesome. So then what happened after nationwide? You're there 13 years and you're like, all right, why move on.
[00:21:29.99] JACK RAMSEY: Sure. So actually, we moved to the home office in Columbus, Ohio, Nationwide. So I took a role in the home office in a business development marketing type role. So again, a lot of people don't take the opportunity to understand really what it takes to run an insurance company. You can be an agent and you have that role forever. You know that role.
[00:21:52.61] But to understand the whole in and out of running an insurance company and how that helps the agents at the end of the day sell their products makes a difference. So I did that. I worked at the home office for a number of years, came back out as a sales director, running a territory. Then was recruited to move to Chicago with Liberty Mutual. And moved out to Chicago area, worked for Liberty for five years. And then a good connection of mine introduced me to Allstate and brought me in as the head of sales, marketing, and communications for state business insurance, which it's super interesting as you have a career like I've been fortunate to have for almost 35 years, things come around.
[00:22:36.03] And so jumping a little bit ahead, at Next, we formed a strategic partnership with Allstate last November to sell our products through Allstate agents. And many of the people that I hired at Allstate back in that day are still there now that I get to work with again. So super cool in how that's worked out.
[00:22:56.69] REID HOLZWORTH: It's all about relationships.
[00:22:58.67] JACK RAMSEY: It's all about relationships and what we do. Before joining where I am now, I had the opportunity to run sales for small business for CNA as well. So I did that to get me to the point I'm at today.
[00:23:11.30] REID HOLZWORTH: Wow. Yeah, that's awesome. Was that under Dino at the time?
[00:23:18.50] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, Dino was the CEO. And I specifically led the sales organization for the small business part of CNA.
[00:23:27.32] REID HOLZWORTH: That's awesome. That's awesome. Been doing that for a bit. So now let's talk a little bit about Next. So what was your last gig before Next is the question.
[00:23:39.51] JACK RAMSEY: Yep. it was leading the sales company for CNA small business.
[00:23:44.18] REID HOLZWORTH: Gotcha. And now you're basically doing the same, right? Fair enough?
[00:23:48.95] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, similar. But I'll tell you this-- I get to wake up every day motivated and excited about being something different that agents are looking for. And having had literally 33 years working with traditional insurance companies, to meet with agents day in and day out, them asking me the questions about, hey, there's got to be a better way to do small business because I can't put my people on this for an average premium of $1,000 a policy. Every time they touch it cost me money. There's got to be a simpler way.
[00:24:25.97] And my answer was I can give you a digital quoting service-- I can let you quote digitally, but that's it. You're still going to refer to underwriting a high percentage of the time. You're still going to have to be involved. And they're like, that doesn't help. I can't make this profitable. And so to be able to go from that environment which-- I mean, it is what it is. It's a traditional insurance company world that's trying to become digital. It's a whole lot harder than being a digital insurance company that's focused on a specific segment.
[00:25:01.61] So [INAUDIBLE] insurance, I mean, you're in the tech world. You get this. But to be born as a tech company first that sells insurance empowers you to do so many things and make decisions so much faster than if you're trying to turn the Titanic around as a traditional insurance company that's built off of a people heavy model. It's just so hard for them to do that.
[00:25:24.95] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, give the audience like a pitch on Next. I mean, I obviously know Next. But like for those that don't know, give them a little--
[00:25:34.51] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, so from the very beginning. So we're formed in 2016. We just had our eighth birthday. And in the first eight years we've existed, we already serve over 500,000 customers and over $1 billion in premium. So in the small business space, that puts us in the top five carriers already just in eight years.
[00:25:56.41] And the value we bring and the thing that we're solving for with our agents is that we're 100% fully digital carrier. So what that means is quoting, issuing, binding is 100% digital within seconds and minutes with no underwriting referral that can ever occur, no follow up forms, no follow up documents. When you issue the policy, you're done. You move to the next one. You pair that read with the best in the industry-- and I believe this to my core-- the best in the industry self service capabilities for customers so that the agent can choose.
[00:26:31.96] If they want to still service it themselves, they can through our portal, which is super easy. But when they let the customers do it themselves, the customers love it. They can get their own certificates within seconds on their phone while they're at a job. They don't have to call the agent and ask for help. And so when you pair those two things together and you can provide that digital solution, you now have made the micro small business segment. You've made that a profitable venture for an agent instead of a revenue drain. And that's something I could never have done before. And Next is uniquely focused on that.
[00:27:06.75] REID HOLZWORTH: Well, you guys have made some really strategic-- you've done some really strategic partnerships as well, that said, because you're able to embed your stuff in a lot of these workflows across the industry. I'm sure that that's helped-- some probably better than others. I know you can get into it if you want to get into it, but I'm not going to get in for you. But some of these big giant names and all this and we're doing all this. We know sometimes those aren't the best, but it looks great on the press release. But maybe it doesn't end up being the best overall. But yeah, but you guys have done a lot of that from my world.
[00:27:45.26] JACK RAMSEY: We have. So in that digital environment that has been built at Next, we have a lane. I call it a lane that is on the micro small business side. And why that's important is-- I did it in the past. Too many carriers today still call small business small business. And that runs a range from the smallest minimum premium account all the way up to the small end of middle market. And when you think of it in that breadth of a span, some of it can't be digital. Some of it is complex. You still have to ask questions--
[00:28:19.85] REID HOLZWORTH: The business is small but it's still very complex. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
[00:28:22.47] JACK RAMSEY: Some of it's that way. But there's a portion of it, which is a pretty strong sliver that actually can be handled digitally. And when you think about it separated that way, you can own and dominate a space. And so for us, it's all the core carrier coverages that you're looking for as a small business under 5 million in revenue.
[00:28:43.95] Setting auto aside-- there's carriers that focus just on auto-- but everything else, we have the product suite for that micro small business. And the data is out there to help us understand, can you rate it, can you accept it and bring it on to your portfolio. Through the data, through the AI and the machine learning that exists, we can do that and confidently do that.
[00:29:06.82] Now what we've been able to do as well, which I think is super important, is we have that multi-channel distribution model so that we meet customers where they want to be met. You mentioned partnerships or embedded solutions. If a customer wants to buy from us directly, they can go to our website, they can do their own quote, buy their own policy. We also have customers that look to the group they're with, whether it's an association or maybe where they do their legal work or maybe where they do their taxes and payroll, and they want to buy it there. And so that's where we've embedded those solutions and those partnerships.
[00:29:45.19] And then the third is my channel, which is the agent, which to me is all the above, because I can actually take my direct to consumer experience and, through a link, give that to the agents we work with. So if they want to let that run 24 hours a day, seven days a week, letting customers quote themselves or even buy their own policies, they can do that. They get the benefit of what we built on a direct model.
[00:30:08.11] Same thing with partnerships. We have agents that are big in programs. And I know you know some of them where they have the exclusive endorsement from a franchise or from an association or a buying group. And I can mirror much of the model we built in an embedded environment for the agents that do that as well. And so that's something that's unique to us to where, because we've got the multi-channel distribution, I can actually take advantage of what that is and bring that to agents in a way that no other carrier can.
[00:30:40.78] REID HOLZWORTH: Who would you say you compete with? When you look at the-- and maybe you don't have to answer this, but who is like your real competitor? Would you say Hiscox? I mean, is it the Hartford? Because Hartford, the way that I look at Hartford, pretty much has the most premium for micro and small, from what I've always understood. I could be totally wrong. Maybe 10 people choke me out for saying that.
[00:31:04.58] But generally speaking, I feel like they're usually the one. But they're not doing the same stuff that you're doing in that. So I mean, it's different. It's more traditional. Hiscox has definitely done a lot more digital and they're a little different. But I don't know, just question.
[00:31:25.42] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah. No, it's a fair question. I consider us competing head on with the National brands. The differentiator being I don't try to play in that large small business space. I own and dominate in that micro space that I let them answer this question, but I don't know that they really want to prioritize that space. They probably do it in some cases to get access to the larger accounts-- and the only reason I say that is too many times-- and again, I won't use a carrier by name-- but too many times, they expect the agent to settle with a pretty crappy experience for micro small commercial so that the agent will have access to the larger stuff.
[00:32:14.42] And to me, that's an opportunity we have as an industry is to truly decide what your lane is and own it and let somebody else own the part you don't want. Let them dominate that space and not put the agents in the position where they have to settle for something less than perfect just to have access to your larger small or your middle market capabilities.
[00:32:38.78] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, loss leader, right?
[00:32:42.11] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah. Or for someone like us, it's the leader. It's the way--
[00:32:47.47] REID HOLZWORTH: Totally. Yeah, yeah.
[00:32:48.65] [INTERPOSING VOICES]
[00:32:50.41] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah. But to them, it is a loss leader. And that's where I think we could do a better job as an industry.
[00:32:55.40] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, that's pretty cool, man. I mean, if I'm an agency, and I want to have some sort of online experience, quote, buying online whatnot or embed it, I have a customer that I do all this other stuff for, and I can bet it in their thing and whatnot. That's pretty awesome that you can provide all of that. Are you pretty picky about agencies as far as appointments are concerned?
[00:33:20.39] JACK RAMSEY: I mean, we're appointing and onboarding agencies every day. And so to me, I look at it as I support and work with agents from the smallest retail agent that's a one person shop all the way up to the largest national brokers and agency groups. I work the whole span. Our value proposition fits all of them and creates revenue. Where I have an advantage, I think, is in a prior life, I would have to go to an agent and say, if you can't deliver a certain amount of premium every year, then [INAUDIBLE] you because I have to assign a human underwriter, I have to assign all kinds of support people to you to do that.
[00:34:01.83] And in my world today, I'm a fully digital model. It doesn't cost me any more to let you work with me than it does for the guy that's writing $1 million a year. The system is still the system. And then to them, one of the things they love the most is it is that easy that the guy that writes one policy every month versus the guy that writes a policy every day, it's no harder for the infrequent person than it is for the frequent person. It's that intuitive, it's that simple, it's a streamlined digital model that works for everybody.
[00:34:37.47] REID HOLZWORTH: That's super cool, man. Yeah, I see many more people coming into that space in the future. But you guys are definitely leading the pack in that way, which is awesome. So congrats on the success. And in a short amount of time too. Very short amount of time.
[00:35:00.91] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, and we're just getting started. I mean, I joined a year and a half ago in our channel, my channel. The growth has been phenomenal. And part of that has been just helping agents understand what we're good at and understand how that's different than what they have out there. And it's learning, it's teaching them that not all small business is the same and should be treated the same.
[00:35:25.99] And this is some of the math I've done with agents that I enjoy partnerships with-- if I can carve out 40% of everything that comes in your door and solve it through a fully digital model and moments, that just created so much time for your staff to focus their efforts on bigger stuff. And we just multiplied revenue. We didn't just add it together, we multiplied it and made it much bigger.
[00:35:48.17] REID HOLZWORTH: Totally. That's awesome. Here's a question for you-- if you could fix one thing in insurance, what would it be?
[00:35:56.42] JACK RAMSEY: There's two ways to hit that in my opinion. They're very different. One is we have a huge talent gap that's not only right now, but it's going to be bigger, I think, over the next several years as folks in the number of years I've been doing this start to retire. I don't know that we have enough talented, really strong people to fill it. And so I think we need to find how to bring on great people in our business. Knowing how phenomenal it has been for my career, who would have thought when I missed my interview that I would end up having the career of my life? I wouldn't have predicted that.
[00:36:34.05] But if you're successful in what we do, it is an amazing career. And we need to bring more people into that. So that's one area. But I think maybe completely different-- gets back to what I mentioned before-- and it's pick a lane and own it. And we don't do a good job of that in the industry. We try to be all things to an agent. And the message I use and I use all the time is identify what you're good at as a carrier and be great at that. Double down on that and be great at it. And make the decision that you're going to do that and do it incredibly well. And that can take you in places you've never been. But again, if we just try to pretend everything is the same, should be handled the same, we're not going to get where we want to be as an organization.
[00:37:30.44] REID HOLZWORTH: Totally, absolutely. What technology do you see bringing the most impact to our industry over the next few years?
[00:37:40.68] JACK RAMSEY: So I saw this at the event there in Nashville, and I know I'll see it in ITC in a big way. There's so many vendors and providers of stuff. It could be data, it could be AI tools, it could be contact tools. And it was a joke I heard someone use at an Insurtech event over the summer in New York where, hey, didn't I see you last year and you called yourself a data company, and now this year you're calling yourself an AI company. And next year, I don't know what you're going to call yourself, whatever the name is.
[00:38:20.41] But from a tech perspective, what I think-- and again, this gets back to a reason I joined Next is if we blend AI-- so in whatever version you think AI should look like, if we blend that with the data sources that are now available and the machine learning that we can build, you actually can create very simplified processes to take care of many of the common pain points that exist. And so easy examples-- an agent wants to understand your appetite. They can either pick the phone up and call an underwriter. However, who knows how long that's going to take just to ask, would you take a question.
[00:39:00.87] But what if you ingested that same document that the underwriter is looking at into your AI tool. You figure out over time how many times people are calling, asking that question through some machine learning, and you serve it up ahead of time. And you can do that through some technology that doesn't require a person. You can do similar things in claims, you can do similar things in how we service customers.
[00:39:27.43] Again, you keep people focused on the complex things that need to have a conversation, and you use these technology solutions to come together to address the pain points that they can address at the same time. And I think we've already started to see that. And I know that that's going to continue to improve probably exponentially faster over the next few years.
[00:39:49.74] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, 100%. 100%. And I think we're ready for it, too, as an industry in that way. And so, yeah, it's pretty cool times. I agree with you, man. We're going to see a lot more of that stuff happening and it's going to be good. It's going to help a lot. And it removes kind of that just redundant kind of-- I want to even call it friction that we have of-- I mean, think about the relationship that you have with an underwriter, calling them all the time and going, hey, will you take this, hey, will you take this. No, I told you two weeks ago, we don't do that, or now we do, yeah, and all this as opposed to not and submitting something that is 100% perfect when the underwriter gets it.
[00:40:34.71] All the data, all the things, you know that they're taking it because it's happening at the glass. The glass is telling you. And so, yeah, and that could be AI or not AI, whatever that is. But it's just getting what's on paper, what's in people's brains into these systems to then basically walk you down a path of what needs to be done in the right order. As an industry, we don't do that, and for a number of reasons. But a lot of that is coming and AI is opening that up. Like you said, take the underwriting guidelines and throw it into whatever.
[00:41:11.35] And there you go, start asking the questions. You'll get pretty good answers. People, companies, technologists are doing that and taking that. And then they're productizing it. And it's not just an agency trying to figure that out. They're really building technology around it to solve that problem. And then once you solve that problem, you check off that box, then what? And so it's going to be pretty neat what's going to happen over the next few years around that stuff.
[00:41:42.91] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, I think so, too. I think so, too.
[00:41:45.58] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, all right. Another question for you. What kind of advice would you give to a young entrepreneur coming into the insurance technology or insurance industry space?
[00:41:56.49] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, I've actually given this advice to a few folk that I met at a recent event. And it's as best you can, don't just simply try to copy what somebody else is doing and be another one of them, but find a differentiator that you can do alongside that to stand out. So take the time to understand what the pain point is that that thing is trying to solve for and address it in a way that someone can look at and say, I'm going to pick you because you get it, you actually addressed what I'm doing, and I can tell that different from the other 12 people that look just like you out there as a new technology organization. But look for that differentiator. What can I do in that same space of what everybody else is competing in to set myself apart as a real differentiator.
[00:42:54.38] REID HOLZWORTH: I totally agree, man. I think that was happening a lot up until a couple of years ago and a lot of the money kind of dried up. But there was these, I mean, all these startups popping up all over the place. And they were just copying each other with just a different animal brand. But they're all doing the same damn thing. And it's just like, how do you think that's going to end.
[00:43:14.81] Not to say, you might be solving a really great problem, and maybe yours is better or faster or whatever than the next guy's. But is it though, what makes it so much better. And so I think that's really, really great advice. Really great advice. All right, I'm going to pivot. I'm going to switch it up. We're going to get into a little bit of some leadership questions. What does a leader mean to you?
[00:43:36.17] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah. And honestly, I'd like to think that others might consider me that. I do my best to be a leader. For me, though, a leader is someone who can create the environment, create the environment where the team people can be successful. You create that system that allows, in some cases, very different roles to come together and create a system that works and allows people to showcase what they bring to the table.
[00:44:09.47] And in doing so, you create an environment where people want to be. And in my career, I've watched and I've seen where people that I would consider great leaders have created places that people want to gravitate to. So when you have an open roles, you have just dozens of people trying to fight for that spot. And you don't have people leave. You've created that culture and that environment where people don't want to leave. And sometimes, when that happens, they want to come back.
[00:44:39.12] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, yeah. Big time.
[00:44:40.54] JACK RAMSEY: Seeing that in my career too, you're creating that environment where truly people feel like they're part of the organization, they make an impact, their individual skill is appreciated and leveraged, and the leader puts it in a way that nobody wants to leave and everybody wants to join. And there's other things, too, that I think are part of that leadership. I think there's humility that's necessary.
[00:45:07.75] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Big time. Yeah.
[00:45:11.20] JACK RAMSEY: And in my experience and what I've seen, I think sometimes we confuse passion with leadership. So we'll have somebody that's overly emotional and, in some cases, might even be a hothead or gets really overblown when something goes wrong. And then they try to tone it down when things go well. But people are always on edge. So there's a confusion sometimes that a person who's super passionate is an awesome leader.
[00:45:39.82] Sometimes that's true. But other times, they're just out of control. But I think the humility piece goes a long way if it's sincere. Your people understand where you're coming from. And frankly, I saw that just in your dynamics at that event. I think about the last evening when the Grand Ole Opry, and you're down on the floor with people having a good time.
[00:46:06.33] REID HOLZWORTH: I was, dude. That was cutting a rug. I was like, come on, everybody, let's dance.
[00:46:09.48] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, different people can look at that and say, that's genuine. You're really are having fun and you want to be around them.
[00:46:15.93] REID HOLZWORTH: 100%. I'm not putting on a show there. I'm just having fun, enjoying everybody. It's a great time. Yeah.
[00:46:22.01] JACK RAMSEY: That one's a good illustration of just what creating an environment and having some humility and wanting to be part of a group as a leader makes a difference. And I think it makes a big difference. So that's where I-- again, in 35 years, I've seen a lot of different styles and ways. And I've settled in on what works for me. And it's that type, that create a culture that works for everyone, have humility while still leading. You still got to make a decision when a decision is important. So that's it.
[00:46:59.99] REID HOLZWORTH: I think some people, sometimes, they just let it-- it gets to their head. You have to be like, this is how I envision a leader is supposed to be. And like you said, some of these people, it's passion and maybe a bit out of control, but it's because it's like they feel they have to be that way. But really, in my opinion, number one is just being genuine, is just being open and honest with your people and like, yeah, whoops, I fucked that up. I mean, it happens. Nobody's perfect.
[00:47:30.90] I've met so many people that like no, I cannot show fault. And it's like they think the wolves are going to come out of the woods and just come and get them. And maybe in certain environments, that's true. And in certain situations, that is true. But I don't know. I mean, for me, just being genuine, generally speaking, it's just easier. It really is. And if people don't like it, so what? See you later. But it's rare that that happens in my-- I don't know-- life.
[00:48:07.74] JACK RAMSEY: Sure.
[00:48:08.73] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah.
[00:48:09.25] JACK RAMSEY: Hey, one other thing-- if you were to get a group of people I've worked with over the years together, I think many of them would probably tell you another aspect at least what they've seen in me is what I call-- it's the calm in the storm. And that's where you need to let people know that things are going to be OK through how you react. I've even had examples which, I mean, super high stress. It could be a people issue, it could be something that has the team really worked up and worried.
[00:48:43.32] And how you react and them seeing you react in a controlled and calm way, it makes them feel like we're going to be OK, things are going to be fine. And that's my style, that's the way I've always been. And what is it that example where the duck on the water, it just moving calmly across the water? But underneath, your legs are just going like crazy.
[00:49:11.79] Yeah, I mean, that can be going on in your head. But what do they see? Do they see that you're freaked out, do they see that you are unnerved, or they see that you're in control? And I think that makes a big difference as a leader as well.
[00:49:24.66] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. And I think that kind of goes to my point as well. Sometimes, that perception that they want from their people may be the wrong perception, you know what I mean, in a lot of ways. Talking about not the best leaders, I guess, is what I'm talking about. But do you consider yourself a leader, Jack?
[00:49:47.25] JACK RAMSEY: Like I said at the beginning, I'd like to think that people I've worked with over the years would say that, yes, I'm a good leader. I think over the course of now coming up on 34 years, I've done pretty well. I have a lot to be proud of and things that have gone really well. So I would say, yeah, I do pretty well in that space.
[00:50:08.78] There's things that I would still love to do better. But at some point when I retire, I'm going to be excited to look back in my phone contacts and see the hundreds and hundreds of people that are in there that I can call at any moment of any day that I led, and they will take my call, and we'll be able to have a good buddy conversation. And I think that's a testimony to a career in leadership.
[00:50:41.10] REID HOLZWORTH: Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. A few more questions. We're going to wrap it up.
[00:50:46.75] JACK RAMSEY: Sounds good.
[00:50:47.59] REID HOLZWORTH: How do you define success? What does success mean to you?
[00:50:52.53] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, so I'm in sales. So first and foremost, sales means you have to meet your goals. It's not enough, in my opinion, to just try hard. You won't always achieve all of your goals. But when you don't, you have a plan for why and how to make it better next time. But first and foremost, you got to hit your plan, you got to hit your goals, you got to hit your numbers. And where and when you may fall short, you've got a plan to make it work and you're all over that.
[00:51:25.17] The second one actually goes back to the comment about leadership. Success to me is creating that environment where people know you care first of all, and you create a culture where their talents can shine and the role they're in, and people want to be there. I have had in times of my career roles where I could post a position and get 0 applicants. And it's because the environment is so poor. Who would want to sign up for that?
[00:51:59.77] Then after spending the time and coming in and identifying what is that team persona or the way that culture should look and build that out. And then you post a position, and you have more people you can even interview. And you've got a bank of people that are ready for the next position to get appointed so that you can appoint them or bring them on board. So it's back to creating an environment where people want to be. That's success to me. Crushing your goals is success to me.
[00:52:31.72] And looking back and having those pride factors, those pride things, you can say, you know what, I had a place there. I played a role there. I got to be part of that. And going back to the next story, that's one of the cool things about being here, being in a company that is creating a true differentiator in the small business industry and being able to see the impact of telling that story to the agents you care about and helping them grow their business.
[00:53:01.75] REID HOLZWORTH: That's awesome, man. That's awesome. How do you give back, Jack? Do you give back?
[00:53:07.16] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, yeah. I mean, my whole life, we've been part of church families. So I've spent so many years working with youth at the church. We moved to San Antonio now three years ago. Haven't really gotten plugged as much in yet since moving here post COVID as I would have liked. But yeah, pour into kids.
[00:53:29.27] One thing that I also have started to do is financially play with the Children's Hospital. Contribute there, knowing the good work that they do. Disaster Relief is another one. Like I mentioned, that area that's hit so hard by this recent hurricane.
[00:53:47.60] So we do financially. We financially help out. But I think the youth is a place that I'll always play a role in giving back because I think they need it. I think they need help and mentorship anywhere possible and quite honestly are just looking for some good people to come alongside them.
[00:54:08.73] REID HOLZWORTH: Totally, totally. That's awesome, man. That's really cool that you do that. Aside from time with family, what do you do for fun?
[00:54:15.99] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah. So I still fish. In fact, I was up in here neck of the woods last weekend. I was up at a little place-- it's called Harshaw, Northern Wisconsin. The lakes, Big Bearskin lake is where we go. But every year, our buddies of mine go up there. And we fish, catching muskie--
[00:54:35.20] REID HOLZWORTH: That's what I was going to say. That's awesome.
[00:54:37.44] JACK RAMSEY: Awesome time. We love to do that. So I still do that. But the other thing I do-- and I don't tell everybody this because they sometimes look at me funny and think I'm crazy-- I got started metal detecting with my youngest son.
[00:54:51.59] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah.
[00:54:52.29] JACK RAMSEY: And so it's not about going out to a park and finding somebody's jewelry. But there's so much history, especially in Texas, where I am now, where you can metal detect a farm or you can metal detect an old building site and find some pretty cool stuff. I mean, like Civil War bullets and Civil War buttons from coats and some really neat things. When you have areas that have the history of where I am, it's just fascinating.
[00:55:19.19] REID HOLZWORTH: That's super cool. When I was a kid, I always wanted one of those. Because growing up, you'd see them, people doing it on the beach all the time. And lot of people would find-- especially, beach is super populated, jewelry and all kinds of stuff. But generally, there's an old park here in Milwaukee. And one time, there was a dude metal detecting.
[00:55:42.21] And he would just say, like, look what I got. And it was old coins and-- because this park's been there forever and there's been so much that have gone through it, it's pretty cool, man. I could appreciate that. It's fun. It's pretty relaxing too. Just kind of almost meditative in its own way, just kind of cruising along, waving the thing kind of situation.
[00:56:04.36] JACK RAMSEY: It's a good time. It is. And funny, to your point, my youngest son is how we started. He thought it would be good to do it. So I got him one for his birthday, and then we've taken it from there. But yeah, it's like you said, it's a nice way to get out, be outdoors, find some cool stuff, and can be meditative as well.
[00:56:28.81] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. If you had unlimited time, what would you do? And money, I guess, to be able to afford your unlimited time thing.
[00:56:39.12] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, I would travel with family. And this has become even more top of mind for me because I moved to San Antonio three years ago because my oldest son and his wife live here and they were having their first child, our first grandchild. And so getting to see him grow up, I mean, he's my best bud as a little guy. And so to have experiences with them and be able to travel and do things, if that was an unlimited opportunity, I would do that all day long.
[00:57:13.11] REID HOLZWORTH: That's super cool, man. Yeah, I could see it. All right. Last question. What is your drink of choice?
[00:57:22.95] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah, so I'm going to ask you the same question. I'm curious. Yeah, so for me, I love an old fashioned. That's probably my go to favorite. But the real answer to that question is Dr. Pepper. And actually, it's funny. It goes back to being a kid. And in growing up where I grew up, it was actually special to get a Coke or a Dr. Pepper. That wasn't an everyday you can just have it when you want it kind of thing. And it was a special treat. And I love it to this day. I get a memory when I drink it. If you ever make it down to Waco, Texas, where the Gaines have their empire built with the home goods thing, the Dr. Pepper Museum is there. And I've actually been. Same thing, people would be like, why in the world do you want to go there. It's that nostalgic thing. There's this not only the drink, but you got the memory experience going along with it.
[00:58:26.33] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, totally. Totally.
[00:58:29.50] JACK RAMSEY: Yeah. So how about you? What's your drink of choice?
[00:58:32.56] REID HOLZWORTH: Well, right now, my drink of choice is a Margarita. I've been on this Margarita kick for a while. I think it's kind of funny, too, because I'll go to bars and be like, can I have a Margarita. And they look at me funny. Why am I being profiled right now? What kind of judgment is being put on me because I'm ordering a Margarita? Do guys like me don't normally order Margaritas? I don't know.
[00:58:54.29] But anyways, I love drinking margaritas. But I would say historically, probably favorite drink overall-- I love a good Martini, man. Hendricks up, dirty, not super dirty. I don't like blue cheese olives anymore. I used to, but I'm kind of getting away from the olives just generally in the thing. But yeah, really extra cold, done well Martini is awesome.
[00:59:21.37] Then my dive bar drink-- if you know that they're going to make a crap Margarita, there's no way in hell they're ever going to make a Martini, I'll do a Jack Coke with lime because nobody can mess that up. [LAUGHS]
[00:59:38.09] JACK RAMSEY: Good plan. That's a good plan.
[00:59:40.10] REID HOLZWORTH: But I'd say, overall, soda wise, though, I would go 100% just Coca-Cola, period. I love good ice cold Coke on ice. Awesome. But yeah, that would be mine. When I was a kid, it was kind of the same way. My brother and I would get a soda and we share it every once in a while. That was before everybody got everything they could ever imagine like it is now. But yeah, so I'll go Coca-Cola for sure.
[01:00:12.49] Well, Jack, this has been awesome, man. Thank you for joining us. This has been great.
[01:00:16.48] JACK RAMSEY: Thanks for your time. Great to spend the time with you. And yeah, maybe we'll grab a drink together in the next couple of weeks.
[01:00:24.51] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, I'll probably actually be seeing you tomorrow because we're all going-- we'll be at the big event. The CIAD. So that'll be fun, man. I'll see you. We'll definitely hook up. All right, Jack, thanks again, man. Appreciate you.
[01:00:40.20] JACK RAMSEY: Same as well. Great seeing you. Thank you.