Whisking Together Industry Event Insights

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[00:00:04.68] REID HOLZWORTH: This episode is a little bit different. It's a special episode. We're going to be talking about events. Really, we all go to so many events all across the country, even internationally. And they were really great. Some of them are really good. But we go to a lot of them now. What is the value we're getting?

[00:00:22.82] And so a lot of people on this call have spent a lot of their lives going to these things and doing this stuff. So figured we'd just get it out there, talk about it. So first, with some little intros, and then we'll start to get into it. I'll start with old Jim Hackbarth himself.

[00:00:41.98] JIM HACKBARTH: Thanks, Reid. Jim Hackbarth. I've been technically retired for about three-plus years. I'm doing a lot of board work, mainly in the InsurTech space, recently joined the board of a large broker, and, prior to that, 20 years as CEO of Assurex Global. And prior to that, not to get into the weeds, I was in what you would call the InsurTech space today, companies, including IBM, Policy Management Systems, AMS, which is now Vertafore. So--

[00:01:14.44] REID HOLZWORTH: We'll go to-- we'll go to Bryan. Bryan, we know your audio is good.

[00:01:17.82] CHRISTEN KELLEY: [LAUGHS]

[00:01:18.36] BRYAN FALCHUK: Yeah. So I'm Bryan Falchuk. I've been in insurance for 25 years, a lot of time on the carrier side, either directly or at consulting shops, ran claims for a carrier, was a COO. And then I jumped ship and went to InsurTech and selling into the carrier. So I would say I used to get free dinner offers. And then I was trying to get people to let me pay them for dinner.

[00:01:42.08] For the past few years, I've been kind of on the speaking scene, writing books, putting them out. And I joined PLRB, an industry trade org, to lead the organization. And so now I'm also producing events. So yeah, events are-- I just got back from one. And I'm heading to another one shortly. It's my lifeblood at this point. Unfortunately, I think I'm just tired. Yeah.

[00:02:04.61] REID HOLZWORTH: [LAUGHS] I think we all are a little bit, dude.

[00:02:06.79] BRYAN FALCHUK: Yes.

[00:02:07.23] REID HOLZWORTH: [LAUGHS] It's coming-- we're coming into the season now though. This is good timing. This is like event season. We're kicking off.

[00:02:14.67] BRYAN FALCHUK: Yes.

[00:02:16.11] REID HOLZWORTH: So yeah. Christen, go ahead.

[00:02:19.11] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, so it's kind of interesting not being just the co-host of this. I have been in the industry for over 15 years and have been at trade shows not only as a vendor but also helping to put them together when it comes to some of our larger events that we do for Ivans, Ivans Connect, Insurtech Boston, but some of the smaller road shows as well.

[00:02:46.31] REID HOLZWORTH: Awesome. So we'll wait for Chip to come back. Hopefully, he'll figure it out, but he'll come back, and we'll go there in a minute. So let's start at the beginning. Let's talk about, first, industry events. I'll tell you the first real event that I went to, me and Kyle Heller, who still works esales at Ivan's, we were at TechCanary. We did our first-- as a vendor, it was really my first industry event. We went to a regional Big I event in Wisconsin in, the Wisconsin Dells, was our first-- was my first event.

[00:03:21.43] And it was interesting. It was good. But like, we were there selling to people. And as a vendor, especially back in those days, I loved it. I used to get out there. You meet all these people. But I was selling agency management system technology, so every single agent that walked by the booth was a potential customer.

[00:03:40.97] So I had a lot of fun with it. I got a lot of value from it early on, but that was many years ago. And I think it was you needed that personal interaction with people where it's much more easier to get in touch with people digitally and then get on a Zoom call these days than it was back then. That wasn't really a thing.

[00:04:01.93] That's when we used to hide and say like, oh, I'm not working from home. Like, Chona, the dog's barking. And you're hiding in a closet somewhere. It wasn't acceptable. Now it is. So it's totally cool. Hackbarth, how about you? What was your first event?

[00:04:16.31] JIM HACKBARTH: Oh, I mean, I could go way, way back 40-plus years. You were probably in grade school, my first event, Reid. But that was back when I was in the vendor world, AMS, Policy Management Systems. And just like what you said, they were very effective. Going to FF, FAIA, the Big I events, I mean, you're-- and you're having good conversations. You can have good conversations, solid discussions about your product.

[00:04:45.21] And you would leave there with some solid leads. I think it's much different today when I compare that to-- but I haven't been to one of those for a while. I had gone to apply that from the vendor side recently. But so going back that far, they seem to be very effective. You didn't have them coming at you. Now, it's like one a week or every other week. And I mean, you could be on a plane all the time. And you got to say, this is the best use of my time. But we'll probably get into that later.

[00:05:15.94] REID HOLZWORTH: Bryan, how about you?

[00:05:18.18] BRYAN FALCHUK: I was trying to remember my first. I think it was RIMS in Seattle, the first one after September 11. And I was in my early 20s. I was completely overwhelmed and didn't know what the heck to do with it. The classes were fascinating, but I was also just trying to get back to my hotel room. And a lot has changed.

[00:05:38.20] The ones I really remember are kind of since 2017. I was chief claims officer at the time, and it was really much more thematically specific to my work. So the networking is what I remember. I have no clue what happened on stages or not. I presented it some. I don't remember. But it was that interaction. Get in with your peers, and like, oh, we're all going through this tough stuff together, which you kind of forget when you're off on your own. And you feel like you're the only one suffering.

[00:06:06.68] So yeah, that's the stuff I remember. Whether I was on the vendor side or the carrier side, it's like those connections and sort of like we all fall back in our chairs. Like, oh my god, we all got it this hard. It's not just that we're idiots or dinosaurs. This is actually tough stuff. So what do we do about it?

[00:06:22.98] REID HOLZWORTH: Chip, you back? You working?

[00:06:25.22] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Can you hear me?

[00:06:26.82] REID HOLZWORTH: All right. Yeah, there you go. [LAUGHS]

[00:06:29.66] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Oh my god.

[00:06:31.40] REID HOLZWORTH: Right? These things-- we love our technology, but it's like--

[00:06:35.54] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Driving us to drink. In fact, we should just bring cocktail. We've done [AUDIO OUT] the afternoon versions. Anyway, apologies for the audio problems. I'll reintroduce myself quickly. Chip Bacciocco, CEO, trustedchoice.com and renamed-- we were acquired-- we're now Momentum Edge, part of the Momentum Edge AMP platform.

[00:07:00.42] And my first conference was actually RIMS conference too, but a little earlier than Bryan's. It was 1990 in Chicago. And I was thinking about what was different back then. No cell phones. Suits. We all wear suit and tie all the time, everywhere. Paper. You know those tote bags they always still give us at conferences? They used to have a reason because you just collect paper as you went, right? I mean, it was constantly paper.

[00:07:32.22] So I don't know why we still have them. They've been obsolete for 15 years. But I remember why. Because we used to steal an extra one. And I used to-- my first gig there was working the booth at Aon, in my suit, and RIMS. It was huge. At least it seemed huge to me. I was 24 or whatever I was. Loved it. Loved meeting people, loved the energy. But a lot has changed. So I'm looking forward to this conversation.

[00:08:01.66] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, so, yeah, I'll say that I think everything that you guys were saying around like it being about people, but I will take it from the other side in that I was working for a company that was trying to get mobile-friendly websites and apps out to insurance agents. And the first show that we were at didn't have Wi-Fi. So that was an interesting-- [LAUGHS] interesting first delve into shows.

[00:08:32.18] I always think about the movie Cedar Rapids when you think about what people think of insurance agent events. If you have not seen that movie, working in the insurance industry, it is like our office space.

[00:08:44.82] But you talk about RIMS. RIMS is when I realized that insurance industry events could be these massive undertakings that had great logistics and amazing two-level booths and really were not just a bunch of people getting together in the courtyard pool. [LAUGHS] So RIMS, to me, is always been the one that you want to achieve. So yeah, it was like both sides of the spectrum my first year.

[00:09:18.17] REID HOLZWORTH: Here's a question for everyone. Today, what would you say is your favorite event? You don't have to necessarily pick a favorite, but what would you say is a really great event?

[00:09:30.81] BRYAN FALCHUK: I don't know what that--

[00:09:32.49] CHIP BACCIOCCO: If you can hear me, I'll jump in and plug the one that Christen organizes because I really do love it, and that's Insurtech Boston. I think I have gone every year. I mean, it used to be hosted by the Ask Kodiak guys.

[00:09:47.35] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah.

[00:09:49.49] CHIP BACCIOCCO: I think I've gone every year. There's a bunch of things I love about that. And I tried to make some notes beforehand, like what makes a good conference? There's a recipe, you know? There is a recipe. I'm not saying anyone's perfected it, but there's a recipe.

[00:10:03.13] Venue-- you have a really interesting venue. It's a cool spot. There's a vibe that just comes from the spot. You kind of inherit the city vibe and the Fenway Park thing. There's the size. There's an intimacy that takes place at-- and it can be perceived intimacy, by the way. So you can have a big event, but as long as you're creating subintimacies within it, I think you can get away with it.

[00:10:27.11] ITC-- I mean, we've all gone probably every year. Some parts-- I like the agent-broker district because they created a tightened little subsection. And so, OK, we're all together in this thing, and it feels like you could meet everybody you want to meet. But once you're in the full ITC, you're host, right? I mean, there's just-- it's schedule everything. You run into people on your mile-long walk between this room and that room.

[00:10:56.05] But anyway, that's my favorite right now is Insurtech Boston. I think it borrows a lot of what we had at Elevate, which is-- my favorite nonexisting conference is Elevate. Inditex got some possibilities. There's actually a bunch of good ones that are out there.

[00:11:16.65] REID HOLZWORTH: What do you think, Bryan?

[00:11:18.09] BRYAN FALCHUK: So I have to plug my own events because I think my board would fire me if I didn't. But I actually do. I love PLRB's annual claims conference in particular, which is often what the only thing people know us for, and they don't realize all the other stuff we do. But to Christen's point, I sent my wife a photo of the expo hall getting set up. It's an event with 3 to 3,500 people, 3,000, not three people. So it's big.

[00:11:44.73] I sent her a picture of the expo hall with the cranes and the rigging during the setup. And she just writes back, oh, I didn't realize your job was a real thing.

[00:11:53.09] [LAUGHTER]

[00:11:53.88] And this is like six months into the job. So that's a whole different conversation. But yeah, I mean, it was one of those moments. I didn't even realize just how big it was. So that's an awesome time. But I think-- probably to Chip's point, I think the things that really hit me are actually the more intimate events where we really get tight and talk about stuff.

[00:12:15.18] So my favorite recently was-- Insurtech Australia had me do the keynote, the morning keynote for their annual conference in February. First of all, Sydney is unreal. I'd have never gotten to go there, so that helped. But the community, the engagement, the depth of interest and conversations like that, I almost didn't want to come-- I didn't want to come home, not almost. But I did come home.

[00:12:43.44] I could have lived there every day in that conference. That was just awesome. So that's the stuff that's just gets you so fired up for working in this space. And it was gorgeous, so sunny and whatever in February. I'll take that any day.

[00:12:58.76] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:13:00.76] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Yeah, I'd--

[00:13:01.14] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah.

[00:13:01.88] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Just to pile on it and kind of echo what we're all saying, so the conference, of course, it's physical reality and everything, and it has-- which is all important. But if you think about it, when you come home, it is the human connections, right? It's like, oh, I had that amazing conversation with these people.

[00:13:20.86] We had an-- the fun part. You cannot rule out the fun part. A lot of people don't even think about that. We really focused on that at Elevate. And I think the conferences that get a little special vibe understand that. And it can't just be one party at night. Like, we're only going to have fun at the cocktail party. No, no, no. You have to intersperse fun. There should be some surprises.

[00:13:41.40] There should be beach balls in the audience being kicked around. There should be a mystery guest that shows up unexpectedly. And like, what's he doing here? What's she doing here? There should be a band in the hallway when you didn't expect it. There should be cocktail served at 2 o'clock in the afternoon.

[00:13:59.16] REID HOLZWORTH: That mixed up.

[00:14:02.18] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Just be weird. People, they want to be a little surprised. They want to be entertained. And that'll help them to loosen up and have opportunities, very accidental, usually, to meet the people that they haven't yet met, that they're going to get something out of and they're going to remember. And then two years later, they'll be like, remember we met when we were both trying to get to the same beer at the XYZ conference at 2 o'clock and-- whatever. You got to create those little moments.

[00:14:30.24] REID HOLZWORTH: 100--

[00:14:30.64] CHRISTEN KELLEY: So I agree. I think that it's-- but like you said, Chip, it has to be a formula. So it has to be a balance, right? Because, yes, it's great to have fun, but I think I've seen some events that have leaned so much into the fun that you still need to justify why you went to the conference when you come back to the office.

[00:14:49.27] So to your point, whether it's sales opportunities or education around how you're going to optimize things when you get back to the office, I think that there needs to be a balance. But I love the idea. You're talking about this bug light effect, if you will, of like, everybody's going to come, so you're going to have these interactions that you never would have gotten if you're just looking to network through an app or sit in a session.

[00:15:11.95] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Yeah.

[00:15:12.57] BRYAN FALCHUK: Can I throw one build on that? I think there's-- you go to a lot of events, and it's like, I don't know why that was happening at that event. It's like, oh, yeah, there was this great speaker, but if you can't remember which event that was at, then it wasn't that great of a speaker. Like, oh, it was a great party. But did you tie it back to the event?

[00:15:30.21] So our big conference was in Indy last year. One of the vendors who had a client event at night did it at the Dallara IndyCar factory with racers. Like, nothing against going to bars and dinners and whatnot, but it's like, ah, they really thought about we're in Indianapolis right now. Let's do something that is so spot on for the theme.

[00:15:51.09] And then people are like, it wasn't just appropriate for the conference overall. It was like, oh, yeah, I remember that event in that city with that vendor because it all lined up versus it's just some motivational speaker who opened it up. That could have been anyone. So I think like, why are we even doing in this place with these people? Keeping that thread is really critical. Otherwise, you're wasting your money producing the event.

[00:16:13.23] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Right.

[00:16:13.63] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Absolutely, yeah.

[00:16:15.49] CHIP BACCIOCCO: There should be a storyline. So the other thing that we tried to make-- we spent a lot of time, back in the Elevate days-- was that there was actually-- whether you perceived it or not, if you look closely to the opening speech-- and we had an amazing team, right? So Hanley would come out, and he would do the opening. But we actually had embedded in his opening all the elements that were going to take place, not overtly. They were kind of hidden.

[00:16:41.47] And then there was a storyline every session, even the way the parties lined up, the way the breaks lined up, the questions we would pose to the audience at weird times to think about. And then at the end, we would share with them and say, this is the journey you went on. You might not have realized it, but this is what we talked about here, and this is what happened there. And remember, we had this speaker [AUDIO OUT].

[00:17:04.39] We told a story. That's how human store memories, anyway. We're storytellers, and we're story listeners. We still want to sit around the campfire. So the storyline has to be baked in with a lot of spontaneous fun in the middle.

[00:17:19.79] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I agree.

[00:17:22.03] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, I feel like a lot of the events now are just not that intimate in that way. And I think, for me, I think the demise of a lot of it is everything has now become so pay-to-play at the-- I'm talking the bigger, majority of events. So the people that are speaking, it's like there's a conflict of interest there. It's not because of this great content and good stuff. It's like a commercial, right? In a lot of ways.

[00:17:48.95] But I'm always-- I'm going to the tech events and all that kind of stuff. I don't go to the FAIAs anymore and those types of regional events and like-- as an agent or agency owner, which I think is very beneficial in a lot of ways to the industry. But I'm not as privy to that because I don't really go to those, but the ones I'm going to, a lot of it is just people pitching. There's their whole thing, you know?

[00:18:13.79] And then it's a lot of the award-type events seem like it's also pay-to-play. They're the one that just signed the biggest contract with whatever the vendor that's presenting the award kind of thing for. So I think it falls a little bit flat for me as far as that content. Kind of to your point, Chip, you and Elevate, you guys were doing a real thing for the industry across the board. You are having people up there to speak about stuff that you wanted them to hear, not because they paid you X amount to get up on stage.

[00:18:48.54] Now, don't hate the player, hate the game. There's a lot of money in that. And I get it. I mean, I'm not mad at them in that way, but for me, it's just not as good. And that's why I think these smaller, more intimate events, I'll just say some of the best events I've been to is like the Insurtech-Boston-ish type stuff.

[00:19:08.02] But these smaller group events-- I mean, like Jim could talk about, there are Assurex events that you're invited into. And you have a very captive audience of the right people. And I think it depends on what you're trying to get out of it in that way. And like you said, developing those relationships, doing those fun things, doing stuff together, whether it is like partying or whatever, that's a side of it, just embedding those lanes for people to step into, to get to know each other in that way.

[00:19:44.64] It goes a long, long way. It's helped me in my career tremendously. No joke. I have met so many people outside of the normal rigor of just sitting in a room staring at somebody talk, right?

[00:19:57.50] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, I want to dig into that too because we've talked about that internally around the whole pay-to-play to get on stage. And I think that has become increasing. It's less about what you have to say and more about what you are willing to pay. And in every type of event, national event, regional event-- and would love to get others' feedback-- I feel like there's less people going to sessions because of that.

[00:20:26.44] They're going to maybe walk the trade show floor, or they're doing meetings outside of the events. It's more about getting there and less about the education because-- and, quite frankly, as someone who is a vendor of some of these, why am I going to pay to get on stage if there's only five people in the room?

[00:20:46.02] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Right.

[00:20:46.52] [LAUGHTER]

[00:20:48.02] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Very funny.

[00:20:51.02] CHIP BACCIOCCO: That's a funny comment, Christen. So I couldn't agree with you guys more. The challenge, of course, is that somebody's paying the bills, right? So one of the reasons that LMA sadly doesn't exist anymore, one was COVID. I mean, COVID just-- I still have-- in our office, we still have all the gear that we were going to give away in Nashville for Elevate 2020. And it was a disaster. We couldn't go. We had 1,200 people lined up to go. Anyway, long story.

[00:21:19.98] But my board hated it. So everybody loved Elevate except the people that wrote the check. And they were like, all you're doing is you're just giving away the industry. I know it's a good thing. You're doing a good thing. But where's the ROI? Right? I had to listen to that at every board meeting.

[00:21:38.27] And then I would pass it on to my team. And some of you know my team-- Ryan Hanley, Sydney Roe, Jen Hawk, et cetera. We had an amazing team. By the way, if we get time toward the end, Christen, team that assembles a good conference is so important. It's so hard to find the right balance.

[00:21:53.99] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Very true.

[00:21:54.61] CHIP BACCIOCCO: But anyway, that's the dilemma is that there's a financial pressure to at least break even on most of these. The ones that are trying to make a profit, I've never tried that. That's a whole different deal. ITC, I suppose, in the whole would fall into that.

[00:22:08.05] But yeah, it's a real dilemma. You got to strike a balance. You've got to pay the bills. But you have to find people that are suitable for your audience, that there's a correct balance of subject matter speakers and opportunities to interact. Frankly, when I was young, I wanted to meet the speakers. So I wanted to meet interesting speakers. I go to the session, and then I would be one of the people that would go line up to meet them.

[00:22:36.33] And that was my favorite part when I was in my 20s and 30s, going to conferences. I wanted to meet the leaders of the industry that had the best ideas. And they're still those people there too. So speakers matter. But paying the bills sadly matters too.

[00:22:51.27] REID HOLZWORTH: Go ahead, Bryan.

[00:22:52.69] JIM HACKBARTH: Reid, you had mentioned Assurex at the beginning. And I guess I was spoiled for 20-plus years, but stepping back-- and I think, Chip, you led off talking about this. Probably the best ones that I attended as an attendee as opposed to hosting was probably the CIAB. Now, it's expensive. And I remember the first one I went to was at the Greenbrier probably 25 years ago.

[00:23:19.09] And yeah, everyone had to wear a black tie and all that stuff. But man, you could walk up to talk to any broker in the world. I don't care if it was Dave S. Lick or whoever it was. Or you go shoulder to shoulder. And one, you had the venue, which was pretty cool, but two, it was invite-only. And it was expensive.

[00:23:41.15] But I tell you what, I felt like we got every return on investment from that. I mean, where do you walk down the hall and bump into Evan Greenberg and stand and have a 20minute conversation with him? And that was pretty special.

[00:23:59.17] The Assurex meetings, Reid, you've been to them. And I understand they've only gotten better. And one of the things that we ended up doing, we had two full-time meeting people, but we finally bit the bullet. Right soon after-- soon before I was leaving to retire and hired a third party, that's all they do.

[00:24:20.57] Oh my gosh. The access they had, the speakers, the agenda, the price point was very attractive. And I know that Dean at Assurex still uses them. And they are incredible.

[00:24:32.10] But I think the invite-only, it is expensive, makes it special, and limit it to the top 250 people or whatever or however you do it. And the venue. I haven't been to ITC for three years. Probably the last time I went was when I was on the Bull Penguin board, and we had a board meeting out there. And I couldn't wait to get away because so many people were stopping you.

[00:24:56.66] And I hate to say it like this, it seemed like they were wasting your time, looking for a job or whatever the heck they were. But I think the invite-only, a unique venue, two days, three days, and you walk out of there with some meaningful info and contacts. So--

[00:25:15.36] REID HOLZWORTH: Sorry, Jim, I froze. What event did you say?

[00:25:19.08] JIM HACKBARTH: Wait, I'm sorry?

[00:25:21.44] REID HOLZWORTH: The one that you were talking about that was really good.

[00:25:24.40] JIM HACKBARTH: The CIAB. event.

[00:25:26.74] REID HOLZWORTH: That's what I thought. OK. I would say-- I would say this if you were to ask me, what is the best event out there for influence and relationships? Hands down, CIAB. But I'll tell you, it is a grind, man. It is a grind. Micro meetings. It is like bra, bra, bra, bra, bra, bra, bra.

[00:25:47.64] And it's the-- but I'll tell you, you're right. I mean, you get in front of-- I mean, the CEOs of every biggest-- everybody, all the C levels there. And it's great. You really rub elbows with the right people that are making the decisions in this industry. But I mean, let's be real. It's $25k a person to go. Yep. Not a lot of people can stomach that, you know? So it is a little bit pay-to-play.

[00:26:11.70] But I think it's still a fantastic event. They do a great job, really good networking, hardcore. That's like the hardest-- I think, for me, personally, that's the hardest working event that I have to do. A lot of them, I just have to stay up super late and party all night with everybody. But that one--

[00:26:32.20] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Just has to-- has to stay up late.

[00:26:34.06] [LAUGHTER]

[00:26:36.40] CHIP BACCIOCCO: But it's hard. I would agree. I think more of those types, and it's not super huge. It's big but it's no giant event. So yeah, that's my opinion on that. Yeah.

[00:26:51.40] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, but I think that one-- so Jim said venue, the time frame of two to three days, I think-- again, going back to this formula, I think also too it's the persona. You guys were talking about these are decision-makers, CEOs, vice presidents, senior vice presidents of these organizations. And that's not usually the normal attendee for most of the conferences that we were just talking about.

[00:27:24.08] BRYAN FALCHUK: I think you get different events with different audiences or participants. And there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's just about-- I mean, back to the cost of getting on stage or whatever is-- there's a need to be honest about that. It's like, look, if who you need to target is C-suite or this kind of person or that, fantastic. But then this event's the wrong event for you, and that one's the right one.

[00:27:46.06] Because I've been to events where people-- it's so funny. This guy's just going off about what a complete waste of time and money it was. And it's the worst thing ever. And literally another guy walks by. He's like, this is awesome. We just closed another deal. And they were actually competitors of each other. And it's like they're targeting a different kind of persona.

[00:28:03.60] And also, I think going at the event in a different way-- and we've all been there. You walk by the expo hall, and there's people behind their booth desk or the table staring at their phone, angry. And they're like, no one's stopping by. I'm like, would you stop by? I wouldn't stop by and talk to that guy.

[00:28:20.20] If you're going to go, it is a big commitment. You need enough staff that you can have people at the booth and in the sessions and networking. And even if you're uncomfortable, you got to step up and be willing to talk to people. Otherwise, maybe don't spend the money on it.

[00:28:36.91] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah. 100%. Yeah. So I'll say the most impressive event I've ever been to-- and I used to go every year. I'm so glad I don't have to go anymore-- is freaking Dreamforce. That Salesforce event, that is nuts. Back in the day-- it's changed now. But that was insane. Absolute chaos.

[00:29:01.99] But I'll tell you-- I mean, taking over San Francisco, basically, they pulled it off. They really did. They really pulled it off. And I mean, they had all these tracks, executive tracks, and you can fall in, kind of to your point. And they would slide you in to where it makes the most sense for you to get the most out of that event.

[00:29:23.11] And it was expensive. But to these days' standards, not as expensive as a lot of the events are today, you know? But I mean, I remember going to first Dreamforce. It was just mind-blowing, absolutely mind-blowing. And then becoming an exhibitor there and stomaching the cash to actually pay for a booth was a whole other ballgame. That was just-- we had a little tiny-- one table, tiny, tiny, tiny thing for a million dollars, literally.

[00:29:50.87] But it was worth it, at the end of the day. And I think that goes back to your point, Christen. It's like the ROI on the event. And that's what everybody's saying here. It's different based on who you are and what you're trying to get out of it.

[00:30:04.19] I do like how ITC did bring in the broker, the whole broker track thing, and they started doing all that this last year. I guess it was last year. Smart. But people were confused. They were confused. It was like, you have to have a ticket for this and ticket for that. And it was like everybody was like, what? Like, can I go here, not go here? I'm like, whatever, just go there. Nobody cares. But like, right. So it's still figuring that out, you know?

[00:30:26.26] BRYAN FALCHUK: That's the part of it I didn't like, is it's like, well, we're all here to network. And then there's this really hard line where you can and can't. And it's like, you're already charging a lot to get in there.

[00:30:40.73] And you think about the point. Ultimately, it's the value that networking and-- so why would you want to limit the value someone can get out of the networking? Because then the next year, they'll be like, I'm not doing that. That's too damn expensive, and they're too restrictive. And there are people policing those badges. I thought that was kind of weird. And you see that.

[00:30:59.71] I get their business model. I think you also need to step back and be like, what's the real value? Because the number of people who go to ITC without going to ITC that just in the area-- there's probably another 3,000, 4,000 people there that are sort of gray market attendees. That's not a good thing for them.

[00:31:18.39] CHIP BACCIOCCO: No, they're just hanging out in the food court. And they are. They're setting up meetings. I've gone to plenty of those. Why would we meet at the food court? Oh, I didn't buy a ticket. Like, all right.

[00:31:27.60] BRYAN FALCHUK: And you could argue they like that because it means there's more people there. And so that's going to bring in more. But it's also reinforcing like, you don't really need a ticket. We don't have to meet in the expo hall. No one's going to the sessions.

[00:31:39.34] And I mean, on the sessions-- this is an ITC thing. But in general-- I live more in the carrier world, so maybe it's a different experience from you guys, but corporate communications-ification, if that's a word, which it's not, of the content means what you're seeing on stage is a lie. And I don't think anyone appreciates that.

[00:32:01.52] It's like you're up there saying, like, oh, we did this stuff, and it all went perfectly, on time, on budget, on scope, and everything's-- oh, and our staff loves it. And our customers-- and everyone's sitting there like, I'm a customer. This is the worst thing I've ever seen. Or like, yeah, I quit because it was so bad. Or like, you're on your eight of that three-year project. How does that math work out? But you're saying it went perfectly.

[00:32:23.90] So we don't believe what we're getting. And that's something I've tried to push people for is like, be honest. There's no lessons in this sort of candy cane, perfect kind of story, or candy-coated, rather. There's nothing in that. And then people know that you're not being real about it. So if you're going to get on stage, just be real about it.

[00:32:44.76] I have a lot more respect for somebody who's like, we tried this. Man, did that blow up. But here's what we learned, and here's how we're better for it. But we got to be honest about how it went.

[00:32:55.50] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Well, and part of that, Bryan, I think falls to the organizer, right? So imagine you're having a conversation with somebody that wants to speak, whether they're paying or not, as the organizer, you'd say, look, OK, that's interesting. But here's what I want you to do. I want you to not just-- you're not going to just go up and give a demo of your product.

[00:33:12.96] You got to tell a story that matters. And what matters is this disaster and-- well, we learned this lesson. How did you learn it? Because something went wrong. And we all have that. And it's, by the way, more interesting, I think more compelling to the people you're talking to to actually share a real experience. We had this idea. We tried this. That didn't work. We readjusted. We tried this. That didn't work. We tried this, and so forth.

[00:33:35.42] And then people are in it. And they're like, well, that sounds like us. We should be innovating like this.

[00:33:40.56] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, really.

[00:33:41.60] CHIP BACCIOCCO: As the organizer, I think you have to understand and coach everyone as to what they're going to be talking about and set it up. Panels are good, except-- let's talk about panels real quick because we've all been on panels. We've all hosted panels. And I'm probably guilty of this too. You can't ask a question, in my opinion, and then have all three people on the panel answer the same question. They'll just do a, "me too." They can't help it. So you have to in advance almost-- and Reid, I tried to do this with you at one of the elevates, and you know it. I tried to create a debate.

[00:34:17.26] REID HOLZWORTH: Oh, you're never going to let that down. You never let that down. You never let that down. OK, anyways, go ahead, go ahead.

[00:34:23.99] CHIP BACCIOCCO: I want panelists to disagree. I have done this a few other times where I would put competitors on stage and say, we're going to talk about your space, but we're going to talk about-- I'm going to force you to talk about your different philosophies about your space. Attack these things. And [INAUDIBLE] but whatever. It's more [INAUDIBLE] that they want to see people get in a fight, but they want to see a little actual conversation and not just let me read my PR paragraph.

[00:34:57.45] REID HOLZWORTH: I think that would get a lot of attention, actual, real, honest debate. But that is-- let's be real. That's really hard to get people to be willing to do that. I would. I don't care, but there are a lot of people that really do--

[00:35:13.86] BRYAN FALCHUK: I don't give them a choice. So I'm not going to back anyone into a corner, but I do a lot of panel moderating. And it's always, we'll meet, we'll write the questions. I was like, why? Let's talk about the theme and get a feel for each other and everything. But where are the questions? I don't want this rehearsed. I had someone who was like-- I asked the opening question. She goes, that's a great point, Bryan. And then a piece of paper rises up. This is on stage, and she's blocking her face, trying to act like-- I'm like, this isn't an audio only podcast. This is like-- there's people in the audience looking at you reading off a sheet, and you're like, that's such a great question. That makes me-- I'm like, no, it doesn't make you anything. You already wrote this down.

[00:35:59.53] But we get that, right? And it's so canned, and the audience-- actually, a couple people got up and left because they're like, all right, well, this is pointless, and they're right. But the--

[00:36:10.57] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, I think--

[00:36:11.85] BRYAN FALCHUK: I'm sorry, Christen. Go ahead.

[00:36:13.23] CHRISTEN KELLEY: No, I was going to say, I think what you were saying about having things that are organic, that are conversations-- and Chip, going back to what you were talking about with just getting up there and showing a demo, it's talk about use cases, talk about why the people in the audience are going to get value out of this. It's yes, you may have paid to get up there and you want to show your pretty new thing. But if you can do it in a way that gets people to remember and understand why they should also want to look at this, I think it's engaging, but it also helps the person who is looking for that ROI of getting on stage as well because you're going to be remembered.

[00:36:54.37] REID HOLZWORTH: You know would be cool-- just thinking about this-- you know what would be really cool is have actual bake offs. I think through the technology side, have a bake off. All right. Let's go I don't know, quote to quote, submission to submission, activity to activity. And then let's let the audience grade and rate that. But see, are people going to do that? I don't know. I would.

[00:37:16.73] CHRISTEN KELLEY: No! [LAUGHS]

[00:37:19.01] REID HOLZWORTH: You know what I mean? Wouldn't that be cool? I'd be like, yeah, let's go see that. That'd be awesome.

[00:37:23.11] SPEAKER 1: Like a rap battle, but with InsurTech?

[00:37:25.97] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, totally.

[00:37:27.03] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah.

[00:37:27.71] REID HOLZWORTH: That's what I'm saying. Why not?

[00:37:29.15] BRYAN FALCHUK: I'm game.

[00:37:30.25] REID HOLZWORTH: Right. You've cleared the air on so much of this ambi-- all this stuff and all this little nonsense. It's like, let's do this. And you know what that would do, too? It would push each other, your two competitors, to build stuff that does truly compete. And it's better and better. Hey, we got this thing coming up. You better get your shit together. We gotta deliver that new feature. You know what I mean?

[00:37:52.09] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Reid, I don't know if you-- Reid, I don't know if you remember this or not, but I remember having you, Ilya Bodner and Kabir on the same stage. Now, you weren't competitors, but this was early days, and--

[00:38:05.11] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, real early days. Yeah.

[00:38:06.75] CHIP BACCIOCCO: And let me tell you, our firms just raved about it. This was early days. Most of the CEOs of these brokers couldn't even spell InsurTech. And this was early age, and it was to share.

[00:38:19.44] And you three leaders did the industry at that point in time-- you still are-- got up what you were doing, and you dumbed it down to the broker level. I hate-- and we got so many rave reviews. And taking the idea what you said-- take three competitors and put them up on stage, and let the chips fall where they may. I know you would do it. And you had-- I mean you would do in a minute. I know Kabir would do it in a minute. Anyhow.

[00:38:54.62] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Reid and Kabir on stage together is always a good time.

[00:38:58.12] REID HOLZWORTH: I love being on stage with that dude. It's always fun with him. He's fun, dude.

[00:39:01.44] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Oh, yeah. He's crazy. Yeah.

[00:39:06.00] BRYAN FALCHUK: So when's the kick off? We just got to organize it. We just got to do it. What are the weapons of war, and who's going to be the contestants?

[00:39:15.28] REID HOLZWORTH: I think there's something to be said about that, though. It's like using the audience, using the vendors to debate these things openly and just let the audience make their own opinion of what's really real as opposed to somebody that pays $100 G's to get in front of you to tell you why everything's perfect and everybody loves it. And I'm the best and the prettiest and the coolest and the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't know.

[00:39:40.48] BRYAN FALCHUK: Reid, I went through that. So I was asked to present at a conference last year, and there's another thought leader guy who likes to be provocative. We're friends. But he'll go at me at LinkedIn. It's a guy named Matteo Carbone. And we were both talking about the future of auto insurance, and I was looking further out than he was. I think our ideas align, but he chose a different path in how he responded. So I didn't realize they had us presenting back to back. And so I present my thing, and Matteo gets up there and goes, now I'm going to tell you fake news, so what you just hear. I'm like, oh, OK. I still won. That's all I'm saying.

[00:40:19.40] REID HOLZWORTH: That's what's up, dude. See, that's what I'm saying, though. So that's-- I don't know.

[00:40:23.10] BRYAN FALCHUK: It was great. People were surprised to see us hanging out otherwise because he was actually coming at me pretty hard on LinkedIn, but we're still friends. It's fine. But it was lively. And then there was a panel afterward with people who had views on it. And that's how I won, was actually, they came back and it was a Bryan sandwich. So I presented. Matteo, with a lovely accent, said I was dead wrong and an idiot. And then these four experts basically reinforced what I said. So everyone walked away being like, that Bryan guy, he's on to something. But yeah, my accent, yeah, not as good.

[00:40:59.16] CHIP BACCIOCCO: It's funny you mentioned that. I was at InsurTech Columbus. I think they actually call it in InsurTech Ohio, whatever it is.

[00:41:05.18] BRYAN FALCHUK: Yeah, Scout now.

[00:41:06.04] CHRISTEN KELLEY: It's Scout now.

[00:41:08.00] REID HOLZWORTH: Scout.

[00:41:08.42] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Thank you, thank you. And I don't know. It was like six months ago. And they do the little InsurTechs all line up. And they each get two minutes. And I mean, they're interesting, but they're also a little dry. So right in the middle, somebody-- they accidentally-- I'm sure it was an accident. They put two competitors right next to each other. So the first person gave their little two-minute thing.

[00:41:30.29] The next person did what you just said, Bryan. They said, no, that's not the right way to do it. It's the only one that day that got a big laugh, big audience reaction, because he just said, that was nice, but let me explain how we're actually going to solve this using technology. And the other-- even the other person laughed. I mean, it was genuinely funny, and it broke the tension.

[00:41:51.53] And yeah, it's got to be interesting. It's gotta-- you can't have-- you can't have people read little statements. So I think we all agree on that. I love the bake off. That's what-- they all ought to have a bake off with consequences. What if the person who loses-- I don't know-- gets a pie thrown at them or something.

[00:42:08.11] REID HOLZWORTH: That'd be awesome, right? There's a dunk tank.

[00:42:13.31] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Chip, do not give him any ideas.

[00:42:14.85] CHIP BACCIOCCO: I like the dunk tank idea.

[00:42:17.75] REID HOLZWORTH: That would be fun. You're hilarious.

[00:42:19.49] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I do not want to be the event manager on this.

[00:42:23.63] REID HOLZWORTH: That's entertaining, folks. That's fun. I love that. And it creates accountability. It creates a whole thing around it. It's cool.

[00:42:33.69] BRYAN FALCHUK: And I think people like it.

[00:42:36.15] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, 100%. And if you don't want to do it, don't do it. It's OK. No worries. You know what I was just thinking about, Christen? Remember that one time we tried to do the rant? We kept like--

[00:42:48.49] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Oh, we tried to do the soapbox.

[00:42:50.61] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, the soapbox. So after the event, cocktail hour, we put open mic for people just to get up and just rant about whatever, didn't matter.

[00:43:00.95] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Purposely during the drinking because we thought that would get people to stand up and yeah--

[00:43:06.63] REID HOLZWORTH: It didn't really work out. Nobody really did it, but--

[00:43:09.39] CHRISTEN KELLEY: (LAUGHING) It didn't work.

[00:43:10.51] REID HOLZWORTH: But we thought it'd be fun. And so then somebody's like, wait a second, you can't say that. And they get up. And so I don't know. It didn't really work out, but stuff like that. I don't know. We got to spice this thing up, man, because it's just it's so tiring. It's just become-- honestly-- I'll be brutally honest. I don't go to any of the sessions anymore other than the ones I'm speaking at or whatever, our team's at, I gotta go do whatever. I just don't.

[00:43:36.17] And what I do at those events, especially ITC-- you know what I do at ITC? I freaking stand there literally in the hallway, and I talk to 1,000 people because they come up. Hey, what's up? How you doing, man? But I've been in this industry for a while. I know a lot of people. So for me, it's big hugs and what's going on, and where you been? What's been going on over there? And hey, I want to introduce you to my buddy. We'll meet later. OK, cool-- that kind of stuff. And I think that's super important, super important.

[00:44:02.65] But the content itself, the pay to play stuff. Come on. But I get it. Don't hate the player. Hate the game. They got-- like you said, they gotta pay for the event, all of it. There's gotta--

[00:44:15.25] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Let's go to the other side of it, though, Reid. Like you just said, you've been in the industry for a while. You have your network. You have people. You are the one facilitating people meeting with people. So I guess, do you see-- how does somebody that's just coming into the industry-- think about yourself when you first came in. How do you utilize events when you're first coming in to get the most value out of them? Because it's different for you now.

[00:44:40.90] REID HOLZWORTH: It's a really good point, a really good call out because-- and it's true. I'm just thinking about that. If I'm like, I don't know anything, how do I even get to know who's who and what. Maybe the event should have a track for those types of people. You know what I mean? That get introduced-- maybe they get to introduce to people on this call. Like, hey, and we get in front of them, and let me-- and there's a program around that, kind of what Dreamforce did and all the different tracks.

[00:45:07.33] BRYAN FALCHUK: Can I give a hot take on this? So I did a soapbox episode of my podcast. The truth is, I was just between guests, and I didn't have anything booked, so I'm like, I'm just going to record myself and go off for a minute. Reid, we had just recorded your episode, so maybe I was charged up, and be like, I can get up, and I can go off on things. I had just come back from an event, and the number of sales pitches that were so blatantly misaligned and the number of people-- people just walked up when I'm in the middle of a meeting and just start selling at me-- interrupt the meeting. And I'm like, what's wrong with you?

[00:45:44.74] My hot take is, there are the LinkedIn sales gods who will tell you this is the way you do it, pepper everyone, and only the ones who care will respond. There's no downside. I completely disagree. I don't think they're successfully selling in insurance. I think those sales gods are successfully selling to you. Here's how to make a million dollars selling a course on how to make a million dollars. That's a scam. You're the product.

[00:46:07.30] Insurance is all networks, relationships, putting the time in and not being an idiot about it. Get smart on who you're talking to and what their business is. Spend the three seconds on LinkedIn to see-- the number of pitches I get per day, we help agents like you. I'm like, dude, I'm not an agent. Carriers like you-- I'm like, I don't work at carrier anymore. If you just took those three seconds, you'd see that.

[00:46:30.36] But I think if you're going to a conference, the shotgun scatter approach, the tell me what your biggest goal is for the year-- I'm like, dude, I don't have the time. I know where you're going. Can you just be like, I want you to buy this? Just tell me upfront. Someone just did it yesterday. They're really sweet, but I don't have time for an hour of back and forth. I know you just want to meet to talk about this thing you're doing. Just tell me. Put the time into figuring out who the person is, what their real needs are. Speak intelligently, not with a script.

[00:47:05.10] And I know-- again, the sales gods would say Bryan's dead wrong. I've been successful selling into insurance, and I've been on the receiving end of it. I don't think I'm dead wrong. Most people don't think that about themselves. But, I think you will do damage. Word spreads around. Oh, that's a guy who's harassing everyone with his sales pitch. I think you got to be smarter. And the cool thing is the tools are there. Go on LinkedIn. It's free. You know what I mean? You can figure that out real fast. So that's my point is, don't go with the cookie cutter, this is the sales playbook. That's not what this industry is.

[00:47:43.82] CHIP BACCIOCCO: I want to go back to what you asked about, Christen, about the track. Because Reid, all of us, we're all in a different point in our career. We really are.

[00:47:53.04] REID HOLZWORTH: Fair enough.

[00:47:53.98] CHIP BACCIOCCO: We're more the people-- trying to be modest-- that other people want to meet. We're not trying to build our networks too much, although, I'm always open to that. But one thing FAIA and other big I associations do well is they actually do have tracks for younger people. By the way, you don't actually have [INAUDIBLE].

[00:48:12.25] REID HOLZWORTH: Well, yeah. By the way, I've done a bunch of that stuff, the Young Agents Council and all that stuff. That's good shit, man. It really is.

[00:48:18.33] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Very good. And they focus on-- you're new to the business. That's really-- it's more than young. You're new to the business. You're starting your career, whatever age you are. And you need to meet people, and you need to learn things. And so there's a lot more focus on education. They show up. They meet their peers.

[00:48:35.11] The other thing I think that's interesting when you get to our level is we all know-- the people we even rely on in our network, we actually met them 15 years ago, 20 years ago, when we were younger and when we were doing this. So if you can help these people meet their goals, they're going to be the leaders in a decade or two. And they'll remember that. So you're helping them build. You're helping them learn all the skills and all the knowledge, and you're helping them meet the leaders that they aspire to be.

[00:49:00.31] So I would encourage every conference-- we did not do this at Elevate because we were already focused on a younger, more innovator audience. But that would improve most conferences is to allow new people to meet their peers and to have opportunities to meet and be inspired by those that have already gone ahead.

[00:49:22.05] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, and I'll say, I remember Boyd McGehee ran that for a bit. I don't know if you guys know Boyd. I love Boyd. I see him every once in a while around. But bringing everybody together-- he would try to bring in people from-- bigger people from the industry to come and spend time with the young agents and then really facilitate that. And I think it's like everything else. You need somebody, the people that are running the event and the things to facilitate this type of stuff.

[00:49:52.81] Even at Dreamforce, actually-- I'm just recalling this-- we had carriers-- I'm not going to name names-- carriers that would spend money for agents to come to Dreamforce, not even that they were on sales force or anything. We're going to pay for you. We'll all come together, and then we'll all experience this stuff and meet these people and learn these things kind of in a group environment.

[00:50:12.23] They develop really great relationships between each other. You bring in industry experts and people that are from the space. They get to meet them, and they start to develop these relationships.

[00:50:23.05] BRYAN FALCHUK: That's really smart.

[00:50:24.01] REID HOLZWORTH: As opposed to this shotgun, get a ticket. Everybody pays for the thing. Everybody's pitching, pitching, pitching. You want to learn about that. Did you go to the session? You see the session? It's just-- it's different, man.

[00:50:36.69] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Well, 100%. And by the way, as far as I know, Boyd McGehee is not with Young Agents, doesn't run that.

[00:50:41.71] REID HOLZWORTH: No, he hasn't done that for a lot of years. But I just-- Boyd's a good dude, man. I like that guy.

[00:50:47.19] CHIP BACCIOCCO: He's a great guy. I don't know who runs Young Agents right now. By the way, if you don't know, Jason Kass once was the leader of Young Agents, like 10 years ago.

[00:50:54.43] BRYAN FALCHUK: Jason is awesome.

[00:50:55.85] REID HOLZWORTH: Jason Kass is a good example of someone that brings people together, and he's doing his thing with IndieTech and all of that. I love Kass, man. He's a good friend. He's been a good friend from the beginning. I've known that guy a long time. He's one of my boys. He's done a very good job of bringing young agents together and facilitating, talking about technology, what stuff actually works, this, that, and the other.

[00:51:17.46] And so we need more people like that. But I think you need-- at these events, you need to start to group people together and somebody to shepherd them and bring them through these things to meet the people, so they're not wasting our time, like you're saying, Bryan. Dude, don't fucking sit here and pitch me. I got shit to do. Don't. I don't want to hear it. I mean--

[00:51:41.18] BRYAN FALCHUK: Yeah, don't give me the business right now.

[00:51:45.00] REID HOLZWORTH: So I'll get off that tangent a little bit.

[00:51:48.96] CHRISTEN KELLEY: We are a little over the time that we had allotted. But I think we've had a great conversation. I'm going to go around the room with this last question because I think it's kind of a good one. I think we've talked about a lot of this, but I know that Reid's apparently is going to have some sort of pie in the face. But if you were to create an event from scratch today, what would it look like so that you could provide the most value to attendees? Go ahead, Reid.

[00:52:22.12] REID HOLZWORTH: I would do small, intimate event. I would have leaders of the industry that are part of that event. I would bring in-- I kind of like what Hackbarth was saying, the invite only type stuff. But that only goes so far. You could only take that so far. I think you want younger people coming in and experiencing that, great venue, not a bunch of garbage slammed down your throat, people talking about real shit from real people, great people in the room, and a fun event in and of itself. Educational to the extent of what the event is designed to do because that's just it. You can't-- it's what we've been talking about this whole time.

[00:53:04.02] I'm a tech dude, so I don't want to know new legislation on insurance and stuff. I don't-- and so slamming that in with all this other tech stuff, I think it's just too much. And so it's very targeted for the purpose with the right people, but still allowing the ability for anybody to come without it being too massively huge. And the ultimate goal is for the benefit of the industry and not the benefit of the person hosting the event. That's what I would say.

[00:53:40.04] CHRISTEN KELLEY: All right.

[00:53:41.52] BRYAN FALCHUK: I don't think I have a ton different to say to that. I think the context will matter. So who's the audience? Who's it for? I'm really lucky that I'm in an organization that it isn't for our benefit. We're a nonprofit, so we're not worried about how much do we net from this. Our purpose in hosting our events is to provide the specific service to our members and give them educational and networking, whatever opportunities, end of discussion. If we make money on it, that's great, but that's not why we go into it, which allows us to-- there is no paid speaking. I think that sort of thing matters.

[00:54:16.77] So I would keep it smaller. I would have no one pays to be on stage. This is probably stupid, but I wouldn't even think about the commercial model of it. I would think about the content and engagement model, and I feel like you might lose money for a couple years, but if that thing really has legs, the commercial model will present itself, but good goes round. I love the rap battles. I love the dunk tanks.

[00:54:41.31] REID HOLZWORTH: Hell yeah.

[00:54:42.31] BRYAN FALCHUK: Finding-- whether it's those-- you trademarked those, so I can't take them. But when we do--

[00:54:47.61] REID HOLZWORTH: They're yours. Take it. Take it.

[00:54:49.99] BRYAN FALCHUK: Let's get limited speakers, but actually have them say things that matter, even if they disagree. But then let's get them together, and let's talk about that, and let's have the audience throw stuff at them. We're not planning questions. We're not pre-planning any of that, having roundtable kind of opportunities where you're almost forcing people to work on stuff together.

[00:55:09.03] And a rule-- it would be hard to police-- but you can't sit with people you know at the meals. If I see all the people from this carrier are all sitting together, it's like, dude, you work-- my team at the last carrier was out at the Christmas party. The claims folks were all together. I'm like, go talk to the underwriters. Could you do that? You talk to each other all day. I'd find some way to force that, maybe, but yeah, just trying to get it to be more interactive and real. And I think that stuff ends up taking off.

[00:55:38.59] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Well, just so you know, every year, either Hanley and I or Sydney and I, we talk about, we should bring back Elevate. So I sometimes-- once a year, I think about should we try this again. You guys are right. You would build all the things that we see in the conferences that work, InsurTech Boston being again, one of my favorite examples, the intimacy, the networking. One of the reasons, by the way, that we aren't going to do that is right now-- we haven't talked about this in the podcast. It's kind of late to do it, but there's too many of them.

[00:56:11.87] CHRISTEN KELLEY: God, yeah.

[00:56:14.03] CHIP BACCIOCCO: So we have to get through a period. I think I would actually encourage some consolidation. There's some good potential partners there where people have a conference. They're like, I wish we could do better. And another person has a conference. I wish we could do better. And maybe if you put them together, you'd have the resources and whatever. But yeah, I would aim for all the things. I would aim for the quality to be number one, like Bryan said. And they should leave feeling like they have a new or improved friend group. You're building a community one meeting at a time. You got to communicate between them.

[00:56:50.25] So you got to share videos afterwards, by the way. This is what happened right here, and turn it into a rock video with music. And this was fun, and that was amazing, and this speaker, blah, blah, blah. So yeah, I would love to do it again. And like I said, me and the people that ran Elevate, we talk about it. This will continue, and it will get better, and it will evolve. So whatever we can do to be part of that, I'm here.

[00:57:14.19] REID HOLZWORTH: Christen, how about you?

[00:57:16.19] BRYAN FALCHUK: Yeah.

[00:57:19.69] CHRISTEN KELLEY: So I think everything that we talked about, knowing who your audience is, making sure that the content is for them and not trying to be everything to all people. But two things that kind of came out of this discussion that I didn't really think about but now are in my head is-- Chip, you talked about at the beginning of the people putting on the event-- maybe putting some money towards speaker training, bringing somebody in that's helping somebody to be public speakers. Because we have these great InsurTechs, and most of them have built these things. They didn't go-- they're developers. They're tech people-- helping them to engage with the audience better. And I think, again, both end up being better for it.

[00:58:07.44] And then to the reason that I kind of pinged Reid about, being a new InsurTech is, as an event, do you allow for the people that have invested in a booth or invested as a sponsor, do you-- mentor is not the right word, but do you put them in and connect them with people like yourselves and allow them to have access to those people because they've invested in your event. I think helps them all around and helps the event be better.

[00:58:37.74] CHIP BACCIOCCO: That's really clever. I love that.

[00:58:40.38] REID HOLZWORTH: Yeah, that's really good, really good. It's developing the community of the event, and it's not just about the event, done, done. I want to say one thing, too. In making money for the event, you don't have to get the speakers to pay you to get up on stage.

[00:58:57.26] Companies will pay to just have their signage up just for brand recognition. You do a little commercial, stuff like that. That's OK. We love this system, this system. That's OK. That's totally fine. But it's just slamming stuff down your throat about how good we are and this is the best thing because I'm the biggest sponsor, I'm the gold, the platinum, the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I just-- it's not right. I don't think it's right. And it's just-- it gets poor result.

[00:59:25.46] CHIP BACCIOCCO: People see through it, Reid, so you're not fooling anyone. So I agree.

[00:59:30.70] REID HOLZWORTH: Well, no, but we're all stuck having to go to these, and we have to sit through this stuff. It's like, can we just have some entertainment out there, folks? I'm just saying. But I love what you said. That's really smart. Yeah, absolutely, that should be part of it. You're paying to be part of this thing. And to be part of this thing, you have access to the people around that. And you can facilitate that however you see fit. Yeah, that's cool. This is a good discussion. I really like this. I like the dunk tank thing. That was fun. I didn't think about that. The rap battle.

[01:00:07.78] BRYAN FALCHUK: I'll throw this out there. So I'm in Boston. The only event that I've never been asked to be at in this industry is InsurTech Boston. It's the only one in my backyard. I will put myself at risk, and Reid can throw that softball or whatever. If you have me there, because I can get home real fast and change. So yeah, I'm game to go in the tank. If you guys bring it to InsurTech Boston, I'm there. We have to do it, Christen. We have to do it. Set it up.

[01:00:37.92] CHRISTEN KELLEY: I've already got it. Now I got to figure it out.

[01:00:41.62] BRYAN FALCHUK: Pie in the face, whatever you need it to be.

[01:00:43.34] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Then we can throw pie at Reid. Is that--

[01:00:45.09] BRYAN FALCHUK: Yes, I'll throw the pie. We'll all be in on it. Great.

[01:00:51.49] CHRISTEN KELLEY: All right. Dunk tank coming to an InsurTech Boston.

[01:00:54.89] BRYAN FALCHUK: Thats your chance.

[01:00:57.65] BRYAN FALCHUK: Awesome. This was fun.

[01:00:59.79] CHRISTEN KELLEY: Yeah, it was a great conversation. I'm glad that, Reid, this was one of those off-the-cuff things that we decided to do because I definitely have some notes for myself. And I'm hoping the audience is listening for those that are doing events, as well.

[01:01:11.97] BRYAN FALCHUK: Good. [INAUDIBLE].

[01:01:13.25] CHIP BACCIOCCO: Thanks for hosting us.

[01:01:15.65] REID HOLZWORTH: All right. Well, thanks again, guys. Thanks for joining us. This was great. Good conversation. It's fun. It's fun. Good stuff. So hopefully, events will-- some of them will go away. Some of them will slim down. Some of them will consolidate. But all of them will become more entertaining, more fun, more beneficial for the attendees and the industry.